Hello,
I started this blog to share with the web my recent experience with New World Video Direct (NWVD), an electronics retailer based in New York with web sales through http://www.newworldvideodirect.com.
On October 9th I purchased from the NWVD website a Canon camera battery charger model CB-2LV to replace one I had lost. The item is shown here and as of today (the 12th) displays just as it did on October 9th with a stock status of "Usually Ships In 1-2 Business Days". I successfully placed the order with a slightly faster than standard shipping speed.
The next day I get an email from a female customer service rep. She tells me that she is sorry but the item is on back-order for 4 weeks. She then says that since I ordered at a faster shipping speed I must need the product quickly so she offers to sell me this item instead at the price of $99. I tell her to just cancel my order. She then says she may be able to apply a coupon and puts me on hold. She comes back and tells me she can sell it to me for ~$45. I thank her and tell her I would still like to cancel my order to which she complies.
After thinking about the phone call I realized that I had likely just been subjected to an attempt at "Bait and Switch," a definition of which can be found here. I decided to rate NWVD on http://www.resellerratings.com/ to warn others of my experience. My review went live on October 10th.
On October 11th I recieved an email from Scott at NWVD trying to fix the situation and get my unsatisfactory rating removed.
The following posts are the email correspondence that ensued.
I post my experience to let others know of my experience as well as to have an open forum about NWVD and similar electronics retailers. I have not altered the following emails, nor have I distorted any facts in my introductory story. Please comment and let me know what you think. I will also send Scott a link to this blog so that he can defend himself openly.
I also hope that if anything, you are entertained by these emails. I cerainly let the situation get me riled up at first so I may have been a little brash and for that I apologize. Enjoy!
Sunday, October 12, 2008
Email #1: Scott, October 11th, 1AM EDT
Hello jtbassic,
This is regarding the review that you wrote for New World Video Direct / NWV Direct / nwvdirect.com at ResellerRatings.com:
http://www.resellerratings.com/s4804/c412295.html#comment412295
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hello. My name is Scott and I am a supervisor. Nwv direct actively participates with ResellerRatings to monitor feedback and respond to customer issues.
Please allow us the opportunity to have you remove your rating by suggesting what needs to be done by us for you to do so.
We value all of our Customers and the feedback they provide in order for us to become better at what we do.
Thank you
This is regarding the review that you wrote for New World Video Direct / NWV Direct / nwvdirect.com at ResellerRatings.com:
http://www.resellerratings.
------------------------------
Hello. My name is Scott and I am a supervisor. Nwv direct actively participates with ResellerRatings to monitor feedback and respond to customer issues.
Please allow us the opportunity to have you remove your rating by suggesting what needs to be done by us for you to do so.
We value all of our Customers and the feedback they provide in order for us to become better at what we do.
Thank you
Email #2: Me, October 11th, 12:35 PM EDT
Hi,
I'll put it simply. Your website says that the item CB-2LV is in stock. I ordered it and get a call the next day saying its on backorder for 4 weeks. The rep doesn't even offer to let me wait for it to come in stock, she instead goes right into trying to sell me another model that is NOT a name brand yet is twice the cost (gee thanks!!). I decline her offer but then she puts me on hold, comes back and tells me she can sell it to me for 1.5 times the price.....am I buying a car??
This is obviously bait and switch and other reviewers have had the same experience. I want nothing to do with your company and I will make sure no-one I know shops there. My review stays.
If you want to have anyone trust you as a business you have to only list items you plan to sell for the price you plan to sell them at. If an item is actually on backorder for 4 weeks list is as "On backorder for 4 weeks"
Thank you,
jtbassic
I'll put it simply. Your website says that the item CB-2LV is in stock. I ordered it and get a call the next day saying its on backorder for 4 weeks. The rep doesn't even offer to let me wait for it to come in stock, she instead goes right into trying to sell me another model that is NOT a name brand yet is twice the cost (gee thanks!!). I decline her offer but then she puts me on hold, comes back and tells me she can sell it to me for 1.5 times the price.....am I buying a car??
This is obviously bait and switch and other reviewers have had the same experience. I want nothing to do with your company and I will make sure no-one I know shops there. My review stays.
If you want to have anyone trust you as a business you have to only list items you plan to sell for the price you plan to sell them at. If an item is actually on backorder for 4 weeks list is as "On backorder for 4 weeks"
Thank you,
jtbassic
Email #3: Scott, October 11th, 3:50 PM EDT
Hi Joshua
What you are basically saying is because there was an offer to a NO NAME item, this constitutes bait and switch.
Had she offered you a Canon charger or a brand name charger you would not contend bait and switch.
Thats interesting.
Thank you
Email #4: Me, October 11th, 8:57 PM EDT
Interesting indeed. You may be in need of a little education. A good definition of bait and switch can be found at wikipedia:
'bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute is. The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute good as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or product advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product.'
The website said (and STILL says) in stock at the low (lower than any other website) price of $28. The rep said it was on backorder and gave me NO option to wait. She immediately tried to sell me another product for $90 saying that I must really need the item fast since I had ordered with expedited shipping!!! It doesn't matter what company made the new item, it was MUCH more expensive and had the same functionality. The fact that it was a 'no name' brand only makes it an even worse deal. It shouldn't be hard for you to agree that this matches exactly the above definition!!
Look maybe your company has brained washed you into thinking these sort of practices are actually legitimate but the LAW would say they are not.
Also if your's was a respectable business you wouldn't have replied to my email so personally. You didn't even try and defend the rep I talked to. I didn't attack you only the company you work for. Maybe you took offense because you are the owner, in which case you probably belong in jail. In any case you should learn how to correspond with customers...or go work for a respectable company.
If you made it this far in the email then pat yourself on the back, reading is hard!!
Sincerely,
jtbassic
'bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute is. The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute good as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or product advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product.'
The website said (and STILL says) in stock at the low (lower than any other website) price of $28. The rep said it was on backorder and gave me NO option to wait. She immediately tried to sell me another product for $90 saying that I must really need the item fast since I had ordered with expedited shipping!!! It doesn't matter what company made the new item, it was MUCH more expensive and had the same functionality. The fact that it was a 'no name' brand only makes it an even worse deal. It shouldn't be hard for you to agree that this matches exactly the above definition!!
Look maybe your company has brained washed you into thinking these sort of practices are actually legitimate but the LAW would say they are not.
Also if your's was a respectable business you wouldn't have replied to my email so personally. You didn't even try and defend the rep I talked to. I didn't attack you only the company you work for. Maybe you took offense because you are the owner, in which case you probably belong in jail. In any case you should learn how to correspond with customers...or go work for a respectable company.
If you made it this far in the email then pat yourself on the back, reading is hard!!
Sincerely,
jtbassic
Email #5: Scott, October 12th, 12:14 AM EDT
Hi Joshua. If you can show me where it says " in stock " as you claim twice in your email, you can pat yourself on the back twice.
Second, you haven't answered the last email, so I'll ask it in an easier way, so that maybe it will be better understood.
If she had recommended a better charger that was suitable to your needs and was a name brand, would it also be considered bait and switch?
Also, answer this,
If a Customer had ordered a battery and a charger, but chose the wrong charger, a charger that would not have worked with the battery, and we called that person to tell him this. We then recommend a different chargrer, one that would work. Is that also bait and switch?, or would the Customer be thankful that we saved him in returning a wrong product?
If you can anwser this time without any insults, I'll know I am talking with an adult. Your last email me shows differently, or maybe, you're just having a bad day.
Thank you
Email #6: Me, October 12th, 1:29 AM EDT
Hello again,
On the page for the CB-2LV charger it clearly reads "Usually Ships In 1-2 Business Days." This is obviously different than "On backorder for 4 weeks" as the rep stated. In fact I can't find any product on your website that says anything other than "Usually Ships In 1-2 Business Days" or "Usually Ships In 1 Business Days". Should I assume your entire website is on backorder?
OK, maybe you didn't read my last email in which I answered your question in full. I started by defining 'bait and switch'. I then described the phone conversation with the rep and declared that her tactics matched the definition of 'bait and switch'. I then stated that a change in item brand would not affect the fact the rep used 'bait and switch' tactics. Here is what I wrote for reference:
"It doesn't matter what company made the new item, it was MUCH more expensive and had the same functionality. The fact that it was a 'no name' brand only makes it an even worse deal."
Your new question is laughable. That situation is completely unrelated to mine. If you read the definition you would see that it would not be bait and switch...BUT your company would have to be truthful. If the charger was actually the correct one but you lied in order to sell a more profitable product, that would again be fraud.
You are dancing around the real issue like a dirty politician. Not once have you told me how my rep did not practice 'bait and switch'!! Let's hear your defense!!!!
Do you remember this poorly constructed sentence from your initial email, " Please allow us the opportunity to have you remove your rating by suggesting what needs to be done by us for you to do so."?? You are supposed to be the professional here. I am the customer. I have a complaint and you have done nothing to correct the situation. Instead you have made the situation personal by making snide comments; don't blame me for retaliating.
One more thing: I am actually in great mood today. Hearing your sad attempt to defend your dishonorable company has been quite entertaining. I am an adult but even a child could tear your defense to shreds. The fact is I am usually pretty lazy about these things. Normally I would just submit an honest review of a company and forget about it, but you have inspired me to spread the word about my experience. I'm sure my story (including our email conversation) will inform and entertain thousands of would be customers.......now pat YOURSELF on the back three times.
Yours Truly,
Josh
On the page for the CB-2LV charger it clearly reads "Usually Ships In 1-2 Business Days." This is obviously different than "On backorder for 4 weeks" as the rep stated. In fact I can't find any product on your website that says anything other than "Usually Ships In 1-2 Business Days" or "Usually Ships In 1 Business Days". Should I assume your entire website is on backorder?
OK, maybe you didn't read my last email in which I answered your question in full. I started by defining 'bait and switch'. I then described the phone conversation with the rep and declared that her tactics matched the definition of 'bait and switch'. I then stated that a change in item brand would not affect the fact the rep used 'bait and switch' tactics. Here is what I wrote for reference:
"It doesn't matter what company made the new item, it was MUCH more expensive and had the same functionality. The fact that it was a 'no name' brand only makes it an even worse deal."
You are dancing around the real issue like a dirty politician. Not once have you told me how my rep did not practice 'bait and switch'!! Let's hear your defense!!!!
Do you remember this poorly constructed sentence from your initial email, " Please allow us the opportunity to have you remove your rating by suggesting what needs to be done by us for you to do so."?? You are supposed to be the professional here. I am the customer. I have a complaint and you have done nothing to correct the situation. Instead you have made the situation personal by making snide comments; don't blame me for retaliating.
One more thing: I am actually in great mood today. Hearing your sad attempt to defend your dishonorable company has been quite entertaining. I am an adult but even a child could tear your defense to shreds. The fact is I am usually pretty lazy about these things. Normally I would just submit an honest review of a company and forget about it, but you have inspired me to spread the word about my experience. I'm sure my story (including our email conversation) will inform and entertain thousands of would be customers.......now pat YOURSELF on the back three times.
Yours Truly,
Josh
Email #7: Scott, October 12th, 2:45 AM EDT
Hi again.
The rep did not practice bait and switch. Here is the defense you ask for.
1. The item was not in stock. "Usually ships" is different than "in stock". I'm certain we can agree on that.
2. A recommendation was made for one that was in stock
3. A recommendation is very different than Bait & Switch
4. The item she recommended had MORE features and MORE functionality--thus a higher priced item.
You write--
I have a complaint and you have done nothing to correct the situation.
Here is the first email:
Please allow us the opportunity to have you remove your rating by suggesting what needs to be done by us for you to do so.
You answered:
I want nothing to do with your company and I will make sure no-one I know shops there. My review stays.
So the attempt to correct the situation was made.
You write--
Instead you have made the situation personal by making snide comments.
I don't believe any of my comments were snide. YOU are taking it personally because I'm asking simple questions to understand your interpretation of bait and switch. Your belief that it was 100% bait and switch is laughable because:
1. You have no idea what item she was recommending.
2. The functionality of the 2 items in question are NOT the same.
3. You aren't really sure of the name brand of the other item and you aren't an expert on name brands.
The fact is, in this case, Bait and switch has not been proven. You're making an assumption based on other reviews that charge the same. I bet you have not read any of the positive reviews where the Customer ordered a product, it was out of stock, a RECOMMENDATION was made, the Customer is very happy with the item, they wrote a glowing review.
Sincerely
Scott.
Email #8: Me, October 12th, 10:56 AM EDT
Scott,
First: Give me a link to an item that is in stock.
Second: A recommendation is certainly part of bait and switch....obviously no on can force someone to buy something. Let's go over it again. Item was listed with a reasonable expectation that I could purchase it. Service rep calls and says item is unavailable. Tries to sell me MUCH higher priced item. This matches the definition. BAIT AND SWITCH. End of story.
Next: The item she tried to sell me was this http://www.newworldvideodirect.com/productdetail.asp?ProductID=2086 listed at $99!!!!. If you remember the product it tried to purchase was $28. Yes it works with my battery (NB-4L) but so does this http://www.newworldvideodirect.com/productdetail.asp?productid=1079 which is $23.
Answer me this, why didn't she at least recommend a product for a similar price?
Ah you referenced the same sentence I did. In that initial email you said you did want to help, I replied and said there was nothing to be done. You responded with snide remark ('That's interesting') instead of apologizing, defending the rep or just simply ending the conversation. Now you are just wasting your time when you should be helping customers (which I am not).
newworldvideodirect.com/productdetail.asp?ProductID=2086
"3. You aren't really sure of the name brand of the other item and you aren't an expert on name brands."
Merkury Innovations would not be considered a name brand. They are a third party accessories manufacturer.
Why are you still having this conversation which has gotten you nowhere when you could be helping actual customers. I've proven my point and I'm going to let others know (Don't worry, they'll hear your arguments as well. I'm not unfair). Just because you have some positive reviews (which are easily fabricated anyways) doesn't mean that you don't often practice fraudulent sales techniques. The fact is many others have made the same complaints I have, just search the web.
Thanks,
Josh
First: Give me a link to an item that is in stock.
Second: A recommendation is certainly part of bait and switch....obviously no on can force someone to buy something. Let's go over it again. Item was listed with a reasonable expectation that I could purchase it. Service rep calls and says item is unavailable. Tries to sell me MUCH higher priced item. This matches the definition. BAIT AND SWITCH. End of story.
Next: The item she tried to sell me was this http://www.
Answer me this, why didn't she at least recommend a product for a similar price?
Ah you referenced the same sentence I did. In that initial email you said you did want to help, I replied and said there was nothing to be done. You responded with snide remark ('That's interesting') instead of apologizing, defending the rep or just simply ending the conversation. Now you are just wasting your time when you should be helping customers (which I am not).
"1. You have no idea what item she was recommending."
Yes I do, its your most expensive charger: http://www."2. The functionality of the 2 items in question are NOT the same."
Wouldn't I want their functionality to be the same? Are you defending me or her here? Also, tell me how this charger is different since you claim it has more functionality (not that this changes the fact that it was a bait and switch)."3. You aren't really sure of the name brand of the other item and you aren't an expert on name brands."
Merkury Innovations would not be considered a name brand. They are a third party accessories manufacturer.
Why are you still having this conversation which has gotten you nowhere when you could be helping actual customers. I've proven my point and I'm going to let others know (Don't worry, they'll hear your arguments as well. I'm not unfair). Just because you have some positive reviews (which are easily fabricated anyways) doesn't mean that you don't often practice fraudulent sales techniques. The fact is many others have made the same complaints I have, just search the web.
Thanks,
Josh
Email #9: Me, October 13th, 12:31 PM EDT
Scott,
Here are a couple of links that might interest you:
http://consumerist.com/5062458/nwv-direct-caught-pulling-bait-and-switch-tries-to-backpedal
http://nwvdbs.blogspot.com/
Please feel free to sign up as a commenter at these sites and speak your mind.
-Josh
Here are a couple of links that might interest you:
http://consumerist.com/
http://nwvdbs.blogspot.com/
Please feel free to sign up as a commenter at these sites and speak your mind.
-Josh
Email #10: Scott, October 13th, 12:37 PM EDT
Thank you Joshua.
We read it. It's fine. We will be investigating the practices by the young lady in question.
Thanks again for the debate, you made a good case.
Have a nice week,
Scott.
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